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| Post Number: 31
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CatKnight 
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,04:54 |
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| Quote | | If there is no standard, ... then there is no reason to deviate from the standard. |
uhh, yeah...
besides there is no such thing as a "course" without a standard.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 32
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TheTaxMan
Controversial Thug
Group: Members
Posts: 874
Joined: Apr. 2001
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,05:04 |
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I see your point.
This is modifing what I said, but it means basically the same:
We already have a standard. People who have been to college (teachers, hopefully) know what a good test is like, and should know how to write it before they begin teaching. This is all probably too much to ask from 'people' though. 
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Four billion years of evolution and this is all we have to show for it?
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| Post Number: 33
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Wiley
©0®ÞØ®4+3 whØ®3
Group: Members
Posts: 1268
Joined: Oct. 2001
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,06:12 |
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Good teachers are rare. I once had a philosophy teacher that was voted the worst teacher on campus every year. He was a sneaky evil minded son of a bitch but he did teach me at least one thing ...so I guess he can't be all bad.
When the class first started we went over the basic rules and what he expected out of us and such ...he even made us sign the rules stating that we read them and understood them. They were very simple and included You are not dismissed from my class until our scheduled time is up or I dismiss you, there are no exceptions and missed work cannot be made up. Yeah ...yeah ...whatever. We all signed and went on with our lives. He really wasn't that tough of a teacher, he just had a knack for calling you out when you were talking out your ass and only accepted honest answers. And then there was the midterm...
When we all took our seats he passed out testing books and wrote one short essay question on the board and said only "begin" ...then sat down and started to read. The question was very easy and everybody was finished in 20 minutes. Everybody was just kind of looking at each other and then a few people started to pack up and leave as in comon after a midterm. The teacher hardly lookup up from his book as they walked out the door and after some time a few more people turned in their papers and left. About fifteen minutes before the official end of class the teacher stood up and stretched ...then walked to the board and wrote another question. "This question" he said "is worth 70% of your midterm grade".
Yep ....I learned a lot that day. If teachers weren't afraid to fail people who don't listen then maybe our school system would be better off.
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There's a sucker born every minute ...but swallowers are hard to find.
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| Post Number: 34
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demonk
The other white meat
Group: Members
Posts: 800
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,07:05 |
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I want to bring up another point that has only been mentioned in passing: parents.
I don't know how many of you have had the opportunity to watch Boston Public, but I think it is a good show that really has a bit of reality to it. The teachers and faculty aren't just fighting the students, they are also fighting the parents, sometime both at once! It's hard to try to find ways to get little Johnny to do his homework while at the same time defend yourself when little Johnny's parents are blaming you and jumping down your throught for his failing grades. We could have a 'perfect' education system in our country, and it will always get screwed up by the parents who will never be able to agree with everything that a school tried to do.
Also, I wanted to address CK's comment about how much money his school had. CK, your school had a lot of computers, which you interpreted as meaning that had a lot of money. This is not the case. The way money for schools is allocated is totally fucked up. Schools are given a sum of money that can ONLY be spent on computers and the like. If they don't spend all that money, they can't spend it anywhere else without committing fraud (I know, it's completely fucked up and the fault of the bean counters). Then, come next fall when money is being handed out, they look at how much you spent the previous year. If you didn't spend all of it, they reduce the amount you get, and it is damn hard to increase the amount they give you. So, your school chose to take the money they got in that area and actually spend all of it. Computers and computer equipment is pretty cheap right now, so a new school equiping itself for the first time will be able to get a LOT of new, nice equipment. The better way to tell how much a school distric is getting is looking at the salaries of the teachers. This always seems the last thing to get increased.
(P.S., in answer to you CK, see my section about parenting above. I blame the parents and living situation of most of the students in your school for their problems.)
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I'm just two people short of a threesome!
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| Post Number: 35
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Bozeman
Guardian
Group: Members
Posts: 762
Joined: Jun. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,15:50 |
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In inner city New York and Detroit (and probably other places in inner cities) classes are filled beyond capacity, spilling out into the hallways, janitor's closets, and bathrooms. Teachers are is short supply, and are underpaid in gereral, but SEVERELY underpaid in heavily urban districts. My mother is a teacher at Northville High School, a suburban school in a high tax bracket. She is paid (with tenure) more than twice (approximately) what a Detroit public school teacher would get with the same tenure. Meanwhile, the city teacher has to put up with substandard environment (dirty, falling apart building; lack of supplies, etc.) Suburban schools don't need help, it's usually urban schools (and some rural schools, especially in the south) that need extra cash to get by. They need expansions, new supplies, and well paid teachers to allow the students, most of which are black poor to have a better chance at a job than McDonalds or Meijer.
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It's the pop-o-matic bubble, motherfucker!
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| Post Number: 36
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,18:24 |
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I'm going to have to call you on that first statement again, as someone else already has. I think that is a sensationalist lie. proove me wrong.
as for your mom making twice as much as a inner city teacher, could that be because she is more qualified then those teachers?
those poor black students wouldn't have to go to those decrepit schools if they weren't forced to by the department of education, in the name of "diversity".
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 37
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demonk
The other white meat
Group: Members
Posts: 800
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,21:23 |
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| Quote (CatKnight @ 05 June 2002,10:24) | | those poor black students wouldn't have to go to those decrepit schools if they weren't forced to by the department of education, in the name of "diversity". |
Ok CK, I'm going to catch you on that one. You aren't making a valid argument with that statement. Those schools they are being "forced" to goto are in their neighborhoods. Where do you think most poor blacks and other minorities live? They live in dirt cheap, falling apart apartments that can almost always be found in the ghetto parts of cities. They don't have any dirt cheap, falling apart apartments (well, not many anyway) out in the suburbs. So, these are not students being forced to go to inner city schools. They are just going to the schools they are closest to. Your statement is rendered invalid.
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I'm just two people short of a threesome!
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| Post Number: 38
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Bozeman
Guardian
Group: Members
Posts: 762
Joined: Jun. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 06 2002,00:31 |
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Check out The Awful Truth, season 2, I think it's episode 10, but I could be wrong. There's some footage during the New York rotten apple tour of children in a New York school in the hallways, and in a janitor closet. The same thing happens in Detroit. Even if they weren't, student/teacher ratios have been growing everywhere, especially here in Michigan. My HS, Northville High just built a new school to hande the students, and it's projected they'll need an expansion next year to handle the kids. Now, imagine an inner city school without Northville money, and you can see that there's no way to expand or build a new school.
The poor black kids are not the ones being "bussed." They're the ones that walk 1-2 blocks to school. I think you got confused, so I'll overlook that accusation. Let's try to be civil, CK. I don't call you a liar.
Also, as for my mom's salary, it's based on district, not talent. If pay were proportional to talent, some teachers I know would be millionaires, while some would owe the school money, due to their ineptitude.
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It's the pop-o-matic bubble, motherfucker!
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| Post Number: 39
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 06 2002,01:43 |
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don't you think poor families should have the choice to get their tax money back/recieve tax credits/recieve actual funds to send their kids to private schools? first let's tackle that question, then we'll move on.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 40
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Bozeman
Guardian
Group: Members
Posts: 762
Joined: Jun. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 06 2002,05:18 |
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When I pay taxes, I don't get to say "I don't want to pay for this government program," or "I don't want this money going to (insert country here)" If you pay taxes, you fund public schools. Some whiny people would like to not support public schools because they want private or home schooling. To that I say too bad. You pay taxes that let kids go to school. So does your neighbor. So does everyone else who pays taxes. The taxes are to make schools possible. If enough people get vouchers, schools suffer, which leads people to say "public schools don't work, I want vouchers for private schools." Vouchers can create the real possibility of a cessation to public schools. Then the poor children have it worse, no school instead of a cramped one. Public schools are (after taxes, and assuming a local school) free to every child. If the parents choose not to use them, that's fine, but they should pay for the alternatives.
Poor families don't need vouchers, they need good schools so their kids can do something other than store clerk or drug dealer for the rest of their lives.
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It's the pop-o-matic bubble, motherfucker!
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