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| Post Number: 51
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kuru 
Detonate.net's 9mm wielding geek-hit-Goddess
Group: Members
Posts: 2566
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jul. 19 2002,18:43 |
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The problem with what Chrissy is talking about is that it's a good intention with horrible consequences.
Equality of opportunity is a noble goal and it's what we should be working on, but what Chrissy's talking about is equality of outcome, and to attempt it is to damn yourself to failure.
If you were to say that because 60% of college freshmen are female, that females should be 60% of freshman engineers simply because in their current numbers it's indicative of 'inequality', you'd be guilty of mistaking equal opportunity for equal outcome.
If you then decided that you had to artificially adjust the numbers (by either denying acceptance to qualified men or enrolling women who are flat out not interested), you'd be trying to mandate equality of outcome.
That's a problem, because it ignores the free will of people. It can only be done under duress and force, and it leads to people so unhappy with their lives that they hate going to work and become unproductive. Sometimes what the well intentioned people (and there's a road paved with those intentions) see as institutional discrimination is actually the result of different people making different choices for their lives.
As long as the requirements are fair to the task and anyone who wants to try to measure up can, it's not unfair discrmination if more men prefer engineering and more women prefer nursing.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
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| Post Number: 52
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jul. 19 2002,19:08 |
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| Quote | | As for why we got attacked... it's not because of capitalist greed. I'd guess that it's a combination of jealousy and propaganda. The people who flew the planes were the same kind of guys who jump out and challenge me at stoplights; their leaders are criminals who rape and pillage their own countries and need to divert attention from their actions. |
he has seen the light!
Edited by CatKnight on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 53
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Necromancer
Ace Rimmer
Group: Members
Posts: 419
Joined: Feb. 2002
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Posted on: Jul. 19 2002,19:13 |
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indeed.
for instance approx 90% of airline pilots are men not because of inequality but because thats the amount of men that apply. this stems from the fact that men have beter spatial awarenbss and such and so find it easier to do such a job. most women dont apply to jobs that arent suited for them biologically and we have feminists crying out that its sexism.
yeah sure lets force people to do a job that they aren't able to do.
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There'll be time for explanations later... and hopefully, some sex
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| Post Number: 54
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jul. 19 2002,19:14 |
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| Quote | | So CK, I wonder. Would you be singing the praises of society if you were ill-fortuned. If you mother was on welfare and you lived in ghetto? Do you think you would sit here and shout from the roof tops how great America is if everyday you saw your family starving from the raping of your country? |
If my mom was a crack-addicted welfare mom who had more babies out of wedlock just to get a larger welfare check for more crack, then I would be blaming the liberal welfare system just as much as I would be now. If I was the son of a crack-whore mother but because I worked hard to improve my life ended up winning the nobel prize 30 years later, I would be thanking the system for giving me the freedom to fix my own life.
You can't force people to improve their own lives, they have to do it on their own. throwing money at them to encourage them to stay poor will ensure that they will never get out of the ghetto, and that they will always vote democrat.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 55
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kuru
Detonate.net's 9mm wielding geek-hit-Goddess
Group: Members
Posts: 2566
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jul. 19 2002,19:17 |
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Well, I grew up poor as shit and wondering about starving, and I still think that the welfare system is designed to keep poor people dependent upon the government so that they'll continue to vote for a bigger government that gives them more handouts.
'Vote for us. We take care of you so you don't have to.'
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
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| Post Number: 56
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jul. 19 2002,19:22 |
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didn't i just say that
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 57
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kuru
Detonate.net's 9mm wielding geek-hit-Goddess
Group: Members
Posts: 2566
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jul. 19 2002,19:29 |
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Yea. I agreed with you.
Don't get too used to it though.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
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| Post Number: 58
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jim
Asshole
Group: Members
Posts: 1208
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Jul. 19 2002,19:30 |
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Yep, I agree with CK this one time.
My friends sister was on welfare with 3 kids.
She bought a bag of pot off me for $150 in food stamps...
(she lied and said I could buy cigarettes with it, bitch)
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| Post Number: 59
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jul. 19 2002,19:33 |
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hahahaha 
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 60
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Darth Liberus
Emperor of Detnet
Group: Members
Posts: 2246
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: Jul. 19 2002,22:45 |
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I have to admit I'm with CK and Kuru here. The current welfare system is broken.
However, you'll never catch me saying "ah fuck it, let's just end welfare altogether."
The Workfare idea is a decent start. There is nothing wrong with saying "you want $$$ from The Man, you have to work like the rest of us." There's always work to be done - trees to be planted, garbage to be picked up, graffiti to be removed, etc. Things of that nature contribute greatly to society - who wants to live in filth? - so I don't mind my taxes being spent on them.
The existing welfare system should be scrapped, and the Workfare idea should be expanded. Make education an attractive alternative to sweeping streets... as in "as long as you go to college (or adult high school if you need to finish it) full time (6 hours/day for high school, 12 units for college), and you maintain a 2.5 or better, you don't have to scrape gum off the sidewalk."
Obviously, that makes education a sweeter deal than manual labor. That's the point - to encourage people to get educated so they'll WANT to get off Welfare. Nice thing about education is it makes people ambitious. 
And while we're at it - if you want to stay on Welfare, you have to pee in a cup, and if you're hot you have the choice of rehab (recommended) or jail. Make sure alcohol is included in that test. Welfare is a way for people to turn their lives around, not a giant party at taxpayer expense.
Chrissy, your heart is in the right place, and I'm all for compassion and understanding in politics... don't think I'm saying we should give in to the assholes. The poor do need help, and I'm certainly not willing to let them starve in the streets. But they really, really need to learn how to help themselves, and that means Welfare has to work like a parent/teacher. Good parents and teachers make you do your chores, they make you study hard, they explain what you did wrong when you screw up and then kick your ass for it.
I despise the right wing... I'm not impressed with the politics of the left, either. Middle of the road is boring. The direction of good liberalism is up lol
Edited by Darth Liberus on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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"let's travel around with our laptops, plug in, and destroy the very fabric of modern reality." -a2n3d7y
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