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Topic: abortion< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 101
Greasemonk Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2001,13:16  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

quote:
Originally posted by diusFrenzy:
Michael:
The difference is that a fetus has no personality, no conscious, no thought, and is nothing more than a simple (relatively) biological construct. What's the difference between a fetus and a sperm? If [b]potential life
is what's really important, then surely we have to kill every male who's ever masturbated as they've commited mass murder on an unprecidented scale! In fact, every time you have sex, even if you impregnate the female, you're still brutually and shamelessly slaughtering millions of potential lives. If killing a fetus is to be equated with murder then surely killing sperm (or eggs) must also be murder. In fact, killing primitive sea algae is also brutual homicide since after all, that sea algae has the potential to one day evolve into a human being. How far back do you want to go?
[/B]

OMG, difference between a fetus and sperm??? A sperm and an egg create a fetus, which grow into a human being(at least for the last 2 million years I think). Any doctor will agree with you when you say a fetus comes from a sperm and an egg.

IMO I could really care less if someone has an abortion or not. Im not and dont feel like trying to be God and judge them because they are the ones making the choice and have to live with it.

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 Post Number: 102
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2001,14:15 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Whoa, Obser-man! How did I miss THAT thread???? ... oh it's in rants... I never seem to get over there...
But I have said before that it would be kinda nice to bring back FUKing (Fornication Under the King)

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 Post Number: 103
Michael Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2001,18:01 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

quote:
Originally posted by Spydir Web:
I just always found it so funny that Christians are always really anti-science...

Technically, there should be no conflict between religion and science, since there is no way that science can either prove or disprove the existence of God, or of anything else that is "supernatural." The only "anti-science" thing about christians is that, although we accept that science does a good job of modeling the physical world, we believe that science is completely blind to things in the world beyond what can be empirically measured.

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 Post Number: 104
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2001,18:58 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

ok, maybe "anti-science" was the wrong word... it's just normally when I get in arguements over science stuff with some people at my old school, they give me this "Well God's God and science is crap" thing, even when it was something like "no Stephanie, when a cell multiples it's nucleus splits" or something. Sorry

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 Post Number: 105
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2001,20:26 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

science can't prove or disprove the existence of god, but mathematics is getting close.

this of course, lies in the belief of most religions that the universe was created at some point, which opposes the scientific position that the universe is infinite in both time and size.

mathematically if one could prove that the big bang happened, and that before this, the single point of matter that the universe sprang forth from did not exist, then something put it there, thus proving that there is a creator, a god.

however, if it is mathematically proven that the universe before the big bang has undergone cycles of expansion, contraction, and explosion for an infinite period of time, then that would prove that it was never created and a creator does not exist.

i don't reasonably expect anyone to figure out these equations anytime while i'm alive, but it would be one hell of an interesting news broadcast.

i digress.
the existence or non-existence of god aside, i still see abortion as a medical procedure and not murder. then again i also see euthanasia the same way (provided the person being euthanized made that decision).

i suppose i've become a little more firm in my stand that abortion must always remain one of the options since seeing a friend's life torn apart at age 19 when her 'birth mother' who gave her up for adoption decided to find her and see how she was doing.

here's a girl who went through 19 years of her life with a family, a mom, and a dad, happy and secure in the belief that she was wanted and loved. she never knew she was adopted. then one day the phone rings and it's the 'birth mother' calling. now this girl has to face the reality that the last 19 years have been an illusion created by the parents who adopted her, and that instead of her belief that her existence is the result of her mom and dad wanting a kid, she really came to be by accident, wasn't wanted by the two people who are biologically supposed to love her the most, and was given away by a woman inconsiderate enough to rip apart her entire life 19 years later out of the desire to now 'be a real mom.'

this kind of thing happens every day, in both directions. a woman who gave up a baby 18 or 20 years ago gets a knock on her door from the now-all-grown-up baby and has to deal with the fallout that this sudden appearance causes. maybe she's married now and has other kids and never told her husband about the time she gave up a baby. maybe even her parents never knew about it.
the 'happy reunions' are still far outnumbered by those that don't quite go so well.

the kids who were given up want to know why they were unwanted by women who have no answers to their questions. lives and families are uprooted and altered forever, and not necessarily for the better.

until we live in some utopia where every kid is wanted and loved by parents who can and want to take care of that kid, the option to not have the kid has to stay. it's disheartening, but no more so than finding out the last 18 years of your life have been an illusion.

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 Post Number: 106
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2001,22:38 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

it's interesting how closely the pro-life position is tied to religion, and more specifically Christianity.

I mean, if God exists, then can't He just stick an aborted soul into another fetus? Better that a new soul gets parents that WANT it, right?

So what the fuck is wrong with abortion?

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 Post Number: 107
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2001,23:15 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

quote:
Originally posted by kuru:
it's disheartening, but no more so than finding out the last 18 years of your life have been an illusion.


At least she got those 18 years, and she will have the next 60 years barring any acts of god or man. I'd be pretty happy.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2001,23:35 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

w00t, damien! Or that child "is with God now" livin it up in heaven! All breat milk, all the time! No praying required!

Edit: Oh wait... or is it connected by it's umbilical cord to jesus... ?

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This message has been edited by PersonGuy on January 11, 2001 at 06:36 PM

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 Post Number: 109
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2001,23:56 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

kuru:
quote:
the next time one of you gets in a snit and wants to talk about what i owe society, remember that it's really flippen easy to point fingers at someone else in a situation you can't ever be in.

Kuru, I wasn't saying that you owe society keeping a child you don't want. I was disagreeing with your statement that you don't owe society anything at all. I'm sorry if you got upset over this, believe me that wasn't the intent at all.

greasemonk:

quote:
OMG, difference between a fetus and sperm??? A sperm and an egg create a fetus, which grow into a human being(at least for the last 2 million years I think). Any doctor will agree with you when you say a fetus comes from a sperm and an egg.

a sperm grows into a human being, providing it has an egg. Just as a fetus grows into a human being, providing that it has nurishment, shelter and everything else it gets from the womb. One is just a little further along in the process. The point is they both have the potential for life...which appears to be Michael's reasons for dissaproving of abortion. But if it's the potential for life that is so sacred, then sperm and unfertilized eggs would be just as 'human' as a fetus.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 11 2001,00:16 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here it come.. the shot in the arm for pro-life.. well.. not really just a question..

Consider this.. your mother could have aborted you.. you never would have had a chance.. what do ya think about that?

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