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| Post Number: 11
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Beldurin 
Mayor of Detnet
Group: Members
Posts: 1242
Joined: Aug. 2001
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,07:48 |
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| Quote (demonk @ 27 June 2002,01:03) | | The reason you can't have a line like this required by federal law to be recieted every morning is that not everyone believes in God, or a god, or even just one god. |
it's not required by federal law to be recited every morning, jackass
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If someone's ungrateful and you tell him he's ungrateful, okay, you've called him a name.
You haven't solved anything.
-- zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance
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| Post Number: 12
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veistran
We don't listen to people that don't like us.
Group: Members
Posts: 967
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,08:26 |
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well, didn't this whole shitstorm evolve from schools requiring children to recite the pledge?
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"Headed down the hard way
Concrete battleground
Urban monkey warfare
Sabotage underground camouflage"
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| Post Number: 13
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lykosis
DetVet
Group: Members
Posts: 109
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,14:43 |
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in elementary school (private) i was required to recite the pledge.
in high school (public) i was never required to recite the pledge...just to stand during it.
i think the idea of any kind of 'pledge of allegiance' is kind of disturbing anyway...but that's just me.
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| Post Number: 14
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Bozeman
Guardian
Group: Members
Posts: 762
Joined: Jun. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,14:56 |
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| Quote (lykosis @ 27 June 2002,10:43) | in elementary school (private) i was required to recite the pledge.
in high school (public) i was never required to recite the pledge...just to stand during it.
i think the idea of any kind of 'pledge of allegiance' is kind of disturbing anyway...but that's just me. |
You actually had the pledge in HIGH SCHOOL?
Where I'm from, kids are REQUIRED to say it every morning, but only in elementary school. After that, they assume your'e an american and let it slide.
About Money: Using United States currency does NOT mean you love Jesus, worship God, or anything religious. No one makes you recite what it says on the money. However, children, who have always had a hard time not doing what everyone else does (there are exceptions but peer pressure is very powerful at that age) are being forced to recite a pledge that puts their loyalty into a nation which is under a particular God.
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It's the pop-o-matic bubble, motherfucker!
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| Post Number: 15
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kuru
Detonate.net's 9mm wielding geek-hit-Goddess
Group: Members
Posts: 2566
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,15:03 |
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I spent 89 consecutive days on detention when I was eight years old because I refused to recite the mandatory Pledge of Allegiance every morning in public school.
I refused to say it because I didn't believe in god (and still don't, for that matter), and I didn't think it was right to swear allegiance to something I didn't believe in.
I still don't think it's right that a government endorsed anthem, and that's really what the pledge is because it was defined by an act of federal government (the Executive branch) should contain reference to or imply a belief in a monotheistic god.
Some peole will say it doesn't matter because this is a nation under god, but what they're forgetting is that the Constitution prohibits the establisment of any religion, including a popular one, by the government. And when you've got a President handing down an Executive Order (stroke of the pen, law of the land) to say that this country is monotheistic judeochristian, there's a violation of the Constitution right there.
Frankly, so long as 'under god' is in the Pledge, it's not a true statement. Liberty and justice for all do not exist, because monotheists are still riding roughshod over everyone else's free exercise of religion by trying to define this as a country under their god.
It should be returned to what it was before reference to 'god' was added. And people like CK should start to realize that this is only one nation 'under god' to people who believe in god. What about those of us who don't? We don't live in a nation 'under god' and shouldn't be forced by President Eisenhower's decision to pretend we do.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
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| Post Number: 16
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Darth Liberus
Emperor of Detnet
Group: Members
Posts: 2246
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,15:08 |
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| Quote (Beldurin @ 26 June 2002,23:48) | | it's not required by federal law to be recited every morning, jackass |
he didn't say it was. he was explaining why it wasn't.
the Pledge of Allegiance is something I wouldn't mind my kids saying every morning if "under God" wasn't there. The Jehova's Witnesses anyone else who doesn't wish to say it may sit quietly at their desk.
To make it truly fair, as well as educational, emphasize that agreement and dissent are both necessary parts of being a country that knows what it's doing. Make sure to point out that kicking someone's ass just because they disagree is low and cowardly.
The older version sums up our way of doing things pretty nicely:
I pledge allegience to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands : one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
I agree that reciting something every morning is a bit creepy, but kids honestly need that kind of thing. if it wasn't the Pledge of Allegiance, it would be The Itsy-Bitsy Spider... something to clear their minds and get them into learning mode. At least this way they grow up expecting Liberty and Justice for All and hopefully demand it as adults.
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"let's travel around with our laptops, plug in, and destroy the very fabric of modern reality." -a2n3d7y
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| Post Number: 17
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Bozeman
Guardian
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Posts: 762
Joined: Jun. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,15:49 |
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| Quote (CatKnight @ 27 June 2002,01:09) | | our country is one nation, under god. we are not above god, and we follow god's laws. that is the significance. saying "one nation" is superfluous. |
If so, then the original version is superfluous.
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It's the pop-o-matic bubble, motherfucker!
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| Post Number: 18
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TheTaxMan
Controversial Thug
Group: Members
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Joined: Apr. 2001
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2002,00:29 |
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The phrase should just be removed from having anything to do with the government. Maybe that will cause religious lobbiests will have less pull.
It's a pointless phrase anyhow, for religious people, everything is under their diety(s) and for veryone else, it's just a bunch of meaningless rhetoric.
Edited by TheTaxMan on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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Four billion years of evolution and this is all we have to show for it?
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| Post Number: 19
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
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Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2002,01:24 |
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the point of the freedom of religion line, as stated by the founders, was to prevent the church from being the government. they didn't want a pope or something to be the leader of the country. they also wanted people to have the freedom to practice any religion they wanted. saying "one nation, under god" in the pledge doesn't prevent you from practicing any religion. the statement means that our country is not above god, any god, any diety, whatever. saying the pledge is not pledging to god, it is pledging to the country.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 20
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forumwhore
Fear Me, I Am Change.
Group: Members
Posts: 3282
Joined: Dec. 2001
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2002,01:46 |
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OHSHIT;
I must be losing what marbles I have left.
I find myself agreeing with CatKnight.
So let's pull the "under God" part and get on with the business of America, Business.
Naturally the above sentence will take about six months to come down to in the courts.
btw I am quite happy to be an American citizen.
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Posting from; El Pueblo de Nuestra Senora la Reina de Los Angeles de Porciuncula
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