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| Post Number: 11
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kuru 
Detonate.net's 9mm wielding geek-hit-Goddess
Group: Members
Posts: 2566
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 14 2002,18:23 |
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Actually, Big Ben was targeted on 11 Sept.
The hijackers made a mistake in calculation, thinking they would have more time to get their attacks off.
They had selected a plane in London's Heathrow airport that was bound for JFK, but because the US grounded all flights so quickly, the hijackers left Heathrow on the ground instead of in the air.
Evidence has also come to light that the Sears Tower in Chicago was a target, and only for the fact that the hijackers' plane was grounded in St. Louis is that building still in the air.
Other targets included the Eifel Tower in Paris, which again was spared due to the grounding of all flights.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
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| Post Number: 12
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Wolfguard
Flyswatter of the Apocalypse
Group: Members
Posts: 1696
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 14 2002,18:42 |
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| Quote (KitKat @ 14 June 2002,13:13) | | Oh! So target #3 and #4 are Big Ben and the Eiffel tower? Tell me why is it only the american flag I've seen burning lately? |
You get into a fight with a group of people your best bet is to take out the bigest guy first.
It makes the rest think about what they are doing.
If you can force the US out of the fight you got a lot less to worry about.
That and we only see what the press wants us to see. The reason that you only see american flags being burned is thats what people are taking pictures of.
That and america is built on freedom. Freedom is counterproductive to their way of goverment.
With freedom your able to speak up on how crappy your life is and how bad the goverment treats everyone. With freedom you can get enough people to listen to your gripes and agree with you. With freedom you can gather in large groups and protest.
Get it?
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Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.
[url=http://www.teamwolfguard.com]TeamWolfguard.com[/url]
"screw the fireball spells...i got a case of WP grenades and a case of teddy bears!"
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| Post Number: 13
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KitKat
FNG
Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 14 2002,19:15 |
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| Quote | | You get into a fight with a group of people your best bet is to take out the bigest guy first. |
Are you implying the Taliban group is at war against the rest of the world? And that the first step is to render the U.S. powerless?  This sounds quite foolish to my ear. Is it remotely possible to do that? I don't see 9/11 as a "war declaration on the world with the U.S. to start with", rather just some sort of mean to hurt the U.S. badly (along with the ego of millions of people! ) . Do you concede that would be a success...?
| Quote | | That and we only see what the press wants us to see. The reason that you only see american flags being burned is thats what people are taking pictures of. |
Well, again. You can't verify that. And actually, neither can I. But then, why would the (american? world?) press only show american flags burning? (And I ask this question in a neutral way.)
| Quote | With freedom your able to speak up on how crappy your life is and how bad the goverment treats everyone. With freedom you can get enough people to listen to your gripes and agree with you. With freedom you can gather in large groups and protest.
Get it? |
Oh, I get this. Fully and completely, don't you worry. I enjoy it myself. But, please, don't stop here. Explain to me what is the link between your ability to to gripe against your president and 9/11? (As far as I'm concern, your personal freedom has no effect on their way of life... Even remotely.)
Edit: removed a smiley that got there because of the '!' immediately followed by ' ' and it was really adding some bad attitude at the wrong place! Ouch! 
Edited by KitKat on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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| Post Number: 14
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jim
Asshole
Group: Members
Posts: 1208
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 14 2002,19:29 |
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KitKat, can you really be this lost in the sauce?
America was not the only one attacked. It was just the only succesful attack.
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| Post Number: 15
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kuru
Detonate.net's 9mm wielding geek-hit-Goddess
Group: Members
Posts: 2566
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 14 2002,19:50 |
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| Quote | said by KitKat
Are you implying the Taliban group is at war against the rest of the world? |
He doesn't have to. The Taliban/Al Qaeda freely admit it in every single propoganda tape they make. Including the one in which Daniel Pearl is decapitated. I've seen it; it's nothing but a statement of war against the non Muslim world.
| Quote | | But then, why would the (american? world?) press only show american flags burning? |
Because to those who want the western world dead, America is the symbol of the western world. It's only the first target, to be sure.
| Quote | | Explain to me what is the link between your ability to to gripe against your president and 9/11? (As far as I'm concern, your personal freedom has no effect on their way of life... Even remotely.) |
Because to them, free people are 'The Great Satan'. You see, the Taliban and Al Qaeda are not jealous of the freedom in the western world. They are angry that the entire world doesn't live the way they do. They want everyone dead who isn't a fundamentalist Wahaabist Muslim. The link between my ability to speak against the President and the attacks of 11 Sept. is that, quite frankly, the former was a principle cause of the latter.
We are free to speak out against the President.
And they attacked us because they hate that freedom and wish to wipe it from the face of earth.
I don't see as how I could be any more clear.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
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| Post Number: 16
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lykosis
DetVet
Group: Members
Posts: 109
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 14 2002,21:57 |
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my dearest kitkat,
you have to understand that in their society...questions mean punishment...severe punishment, sometimes death. there are people that have questioned it and still question it. they get 'dealt with' in ways that we can't even begin to comprehend. think middle ages torture tactics...it's much the same. as far as i'm concerned, the middle east is in it's own version of the dark ages...
i want you all to try and imagine what it would be like in this country if the most hardline Christian group you can think of was in COMPLETE control of our government. now imagine what that group would do to a country that was believed to be the embodiment of SATAN on earth.
the Crusades are an excellent lesson to learn from. religious fanatics fight a different kind of war.
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| Post Number: 17
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KitKat
FNG
Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 14 2002,22:19 |
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| Quote | They had selected a plane in London's Heathrow airport that was bound for JFK, but because the US grounded all flights so quickly, the hijackers left Heathrow on the ground instead of in the air.
Evidence has also come to light that the Sears Tower in Chicago was a target, and only for the fact that the hijackers' plane was grounded in St. Louis is that building still in the air. |
Wtf? I stand mightily corrected. Sheesh. Mind if I ask you one source of that so I can read it for myself? I actually am surprised this is the first I hear about all this... Btw, googling "terrorist attack sears tower" haven't brought any article stating definitive proof, only stuff likethis.
| Quote | | He doesn't have to. The Taliban/Al Qaeda freely admit it in every single propoganda tape they make. Including the one in which Daniel Pearl is decapitated. I've seen it; it's nothing but a statement of war against the non Muslim world. |
Now, waaaiiiit a second. Time out! Are you saying you actually buy this Taliban propaganda s-h-i-t...? (Well, that's what it is IMHO.)
I'm challenging this "world domination" cause here. Have you (cold-headedly/cold-bloodedly) considered other scenarios? Like an oil deal gone sour. (google: taliban oil) Or something else? (google: bin laden ties fbi bush)
Personnally, I don't have definitive opinion. I consider there are enough facts floating around to question the legitimacy of any definitive and ultimate "cause". And amongst them, the "they hate us" argument...
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| Post Number: 18
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Pravus Angelus
Codito Ergo Sum
Group: Members
Posts: 81
Joined: May 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 15 2002,00:40 |
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Religious fanaticism and the wars that are a "result" of such have a tendency to conveniently coincide with the instigator's more material concerns. Obviously religion is a useful tool for Bin Ladin when he tries to rally support for his cause, but we shouldn't forget that while we'd like to pretend otherwise, our enemies are rational people and commit rational actions which are often far more reactive than proactive.
It's not like the arab world is entirely without cause for being somewhat upset at us. We support Israel, which makes perfect sense from our standpoint, since they're a soverign nation that we're allied with. But they're a soverign nation we (read: western world) created. And when we mass-emmigrated jews into the region and carved up a piece of land to call Israel (in which Palestinians were living) after world war II this amounted to nothing less than unconventional invasion. Whether justified or not, we (again, read: western world) essentially stole arab land (yes yes it was under British control at the time, but the population attack hadn't happened yet, and arguably the colonial movements that led to that situation amount to something similar anyway). Israel is a thorn in the side of the arab world, for reasons of prestige and security. The arab countries, while they fight amongst themselves, are more friendly to each other than to us (duh). So obviously it's safer for them to have other arab nations nearby, rather than western nations (which, for all intents and purposes, Israel is). The Israel issue is one of the things that has greatly provoked people like Bin Ladin (who mentions it during many of his little home videos, and not without a great deal of emphasis).
Futher meddling in the arab world include operation desert storm, not only because we decided to play the hand of god and settle an arab dispute (this would sort of be like portugal, if you can imagine them to be a superpower, coming in during the American civil war and defending the South against the perceived Northern oppressors. Obviously we'd be upset about the whole affair). But also because of our lack of respect for islamic tradition (having US soldiers moving through mecca, even though at the behest of the saudi government is obviously going to upset those people who are less than supportive of America. Again, one of Bin Ladin's gripes.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to suggest that the US should take a complete hands off approach and not try to exert it's power, but let's not fool ourselves into believing that when we do we don't upset people and that when people are upset, it's simply because they're freedom hating godless communists and not rational people who don't like our way of doing things.
As always, my humble 2c
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"Lately, the only thing keeping me from being a serial killer is my distaste for manual labor"
--Dilbert
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| Post Number: 19
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 15 2002,05:12 |
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| Quote | | the Crusades are an excellent lesson to learn from. religious fanatics fight a different kind of war. |
why does no one seem to know what the crusades REALLY were...*sigh*
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 20
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Bozeman
Guardian
Group: Members
Posts: 762
Joined: Jun. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 15 2002,13:43 |
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*interest piqued*
What WERE the crusades, CK?
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It's the pop-o-matic bubble, motherfucker!
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