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| Post Number: 21
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Vigilante 
Unrequited Lover
Group: Members
Posts: 719
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 15 2002,18:39 |
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An elaborate set-up for the third Indiana Jones movie.
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He says turn the other cheek, but that seems kind of weak
I just want to beat up, beat up the meek
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| Post Number: 22
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 15 2002,20:55 |
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the crusades were about english and french knights ralling together to defend europe against the ottomans. the europeans did not have a standing army at the time, where as the ottomans had thousands of brass cannons and their elite swordsman, the immortals. the ottoman army got as far as france if I recall, before they were pushed back. Although it was christians versus muslims, the war was not religiously based. It was purely a land-grab war.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 23
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Wolfguard
Flyswatter of the Apocalypse
Group: Members
Posts: 1696
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 16 2002,01:05 |
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damm footstools...that will learn them.
and the next crusades?
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Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.
[url=http://www.teamwolfguard.com]TeamWolfguard.com[/url]
"screw the fireball spells...i got a case of WP grenades and a case of teddy bears!"
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| Post Number: 24
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Bozeman
Guardian
Group: Members
Posts: 762
Joined: Jun. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 16 2002,16:18 |
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I hope it's not like the CHILDREN'S CRUSADE...
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It's the pop-o-matic bubble, motherfucker!
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| Post Number: 25
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RadioActive
BioHZRD
Group: Members
Posts: 483
Joined: Jan. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 16 2002,18:58 |
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| Quote (KitKat @ 14 June 2002,17:19) | | Quote | They had selected a plane in London's Heathrow airport that was bound for JFK, but because the US grounded all flights so quickly, the hijackers left Heathrow on the ground instead of in the air.
Evidence has also come to light that the Sears Tower in Chicago was a target, and only for the fact that the hijackers' plane was grounded in St. Louis is that building still in the air. |
Wtf? I stand mightily corrected. Sheesh. Mind if I ask you one source of that so I can read it for myself? I actually am surprised this is the first I hear about all this... Btw, googling "terrorist attack sears tower" haven't brought any article stating definitive proof, only stuff likethis.
| Quote | | He doesn't have to. The Taliban/Al Qaeda freely admit it in every single propoganda tape they make. Including the one in which Daniel Pearl is decapitated. I've seen it; it's nothing but a statement of war against the non Muslim world. |
Now, waaaiiiit a second. Time out! Are you saying you actually buy this Taliban propaganda s-h-i-t...? (Well, that's what it is IMHO.)
I'm challenging this "world domination" cause here. Have you (cold-headedly/cold-bloodedly) considered other scenarios? Like an oil deal gone sour. (google: taliban oil) Or something else? (google: bin laden ties fbi bush)
Personnally, I don't have definitive opinion. I consider there are enough facts floating around to question the legitimacy of any definitive and ultimate "cause". And amongst them, the "they hate us" argument... |
so far your only argument against was "where's the proof that says that you are right?". well where's the proof that says that they're wrong and you are right? that's right, the proof is highly classified and the only thing we see is a highly filtered propaganda coming from all sides. true facts are not ment to be presented to us, mere mortals, by the US and other governments. so if you are going to argue, base it on something you know, rather then on the fact that you don't know much.
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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
-Albert Einstein
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| Post Number: 26
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 16 2002,21:21 |
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oh, are we back on the 'Bush wants to conquer the world' lie again? I thought we were on the 'Bush is killing your children with asthma' lie now.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 27
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Necromancer
Ace Rimmer
Group: Members
Posts: 419
Joined: Feb. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 16 2002,23:07 |
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bush wants to steal your cornflakes
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There'll be time for explanations later... and hopefully, some sex
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| Post Number: 28
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wix
politically unstable
Group: Members
Posts: 37
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 17 2002,07:00 |
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[quote=lykosis,13 June 2002,14:23][/quote]
| Quote | we have a real and very dangerous enemy. we being everyone that believes in freedom of choice, freedom of speech, freedom of expression, etc...
hard line fundamentalist are dangerous people...wether they be Catholics in the middle ages, or Muslims in the 21st century. these people see anyone that disagrees with their belief system as PURE EVIL, as tools of the devil. |
Why is it that you decide to give into the press so easily as to think that the only reason people are doing this is because they hate freedom and hate you. That's illogical and doesn't make any sense. These people have never said they hate the United States for it's freedom, but rather because of it's policies.
| Quote | | they have no interest in peace...they only have interest in victory. |
This is what I find interesting, what, is peace? Is the treaty of versilles peace? Is simply stopping to kill each other 'peace'? Is giving into the other side peace? From a perspective of violence I suppose. After WWI the president of the united states proposed what would be known as the 14pts to give "Peace without Victory"-- the idea that we could come to peace (as opposed to violence), without actually demanding reparations, and further punishment for the actual war. Unfortunately this viewpoint was completely rejected. Had it not been, WWII might never had happened. But in the context that you talk about these groups are afforded NEITHER peace nor victory, so they strive for either one. They strive for policy changes by the only means they know how, and we hunt them down for it. They strive for victory and we say they are being unreasonable when it is the US policy never to negotiate with them. Ironically, I think the party that this sentance really describes is the united states.
| Quote | | they have no interest in making deals...they can not deal with "the devil". these are very supersticious people WE are dealing with. |
They don't want deals with the devil, they want changes in US policy, and they are willing to work with us on these points. Bin Laden himself said he would stop should the US seek withdrawls from the region.
| Quote | | i know what you've been told...i know what you've heard...but let me tell you something, you really have NO IDEA until you have been there...until you have talked to people that have been oppressed by these fanatics. most of these people can't read and can't write and they are being taken advantage of...USED as weapons for the "greater good". |
Is it any better in America, where the greater good says that if you love your county and wish to be patriotic you must agree with the government? And questioning the motives or demanding civil rights would be selfish?
| Quote | | they don't know any better...that's all they've been taght their entire lives. i feel sorry for them, but i will not be sorry when they die...and die they must. fuck em, they want to go to heaven, well i say have a nice trip. |
First, let me say, I do not think you really feel sorry for them, so why write that? Second, I don't think they are seeking this course of action for a religious sense as much as policy awareness. Your contempt for them is ironic considering you accuse them neither being willing to accept peace or victory.
| Quote | | yes, innocent people will die, and that is unavoidable and regretable, but that's the way it's gotta be...that's the way it will always be. wars kill 'innocent' people, because everyone is 'innocent', cept a handful of people that pull strings. |
I don't justify the terrorist action, infact I think there are many more logical ways to address policy, but the point at which you say the innocent should suffer and die while we attack these people is rediculous. How can you seriously make the claim that they are the ones who are just simply blood thristy and hungry for hating freedom when you justify killing innocent lives in the hope we might catch one of these string pullers. The problem with terrorists is specifically their contempt for human life, they kill innocents. It's not that they challenge authority, but it's the way that they do it. Is it any more just for us to do the same thing for the namesake of killing a terrorist? Of course not.
In the 1960s the civil rights era hated freedom, the protesters to WWI (e.g. Eugine Debs) hated freedom, the people who demanded more checks on the government, writing the bill of rights, or even forming a new government seperate that of the British empire hated freedom. Need I remind you that all these men, had they not succeded would only have been labeled as terrorists. Radical ideas become liberal ideas, and liberal ideas become the accepted norm. It might just make sense to reread the post by Pravus Angelus, these terrorists have a rational mind, and rational goals. Their methods may not be conventional or liked, but that doesn't just mean they hate freedom-- nor, I might add, does that justify us forgeting our own freedoms, or humanity to catch them.
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"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session."--Judge Gideon J. Tucker, 1866.
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| Post Number: 29
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lykosis
DetVet
Group: Members
Posts: 109
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 17 2002,14:43 |
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where are you from?
where have you been?
who have you talked to?
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| Post Number: 30
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Bozeman
Guardian
Group: Members
Posts: 762
Joined: Jun. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 17 2002,15:30 |
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| Quote (lykosis @ 17 June 2002,10:43) | where are you from?
where have you been?
who have you talked to? |
Who cares?
He raises some interesting points.
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It's the pop-o-matic bubble, motherfucker!
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