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| Post Number: 31
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damien_s_lucifer 
Emperor of Detnet
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Posts: 33
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: May 30 2002,02:21 |
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yeah, it did its job for me too.
There is a whole fancy theory to go with SSRIs, but imho I think the best way to describe things is that increasing serotonin causes mild to moderate sedation, just enough that your mind doesn't flip out as much. a lot of people notice an increase of energy at first, but that may well be because you're not afraid to go out and do things... alcohol has the same paradoxical effect. probably happens because just doing something has a way of giving you more energy 
in short, I no longer buy the serotonin-depression theory. it seems odd to me, especially when you consider that computation (and therefore thinking) happens in the neural body, not at the synapses. furthermore, neurons are designed to tolerate and adjust to fairly wide variances in signal strength.
finally, there's the fact that serotonin levels are determined by measuring serotonin metabolites in the blood. serotonin is used for a wide range of things, including muscle control and perceptual feedback. the more your nerves are used, the more serotonin will be released and metabolized. so it makes sense that a depressed person who spends most of their time avoiding moving around and experiencing things is going to have much lower serotonin levels than someone who is highly active. their metabolite levels are lower because they're not using it as much.
this implies that curing depression is going to elevate serotonin levels, but the reverse - elevating serotonin levels will cure depression - does not follow.
in the end, it was changing the way I thought that alleviated depression for me. paxil calmed me down. calm thinking is usually good thinking, so it obviously helped out there. but I'm really starting to doubt that it's anything more than a plain old sedative.
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| Post Number: 32
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TheTaxMan
Controversial Thug
Group: Members
Posts: 874
Joined: Apr. 2001
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Posted on: May 30 2002,02:40 |
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| Quote (damien_s_lucifer @ 29 May 2002,18:21) | | furthermore, neurons are designed to tolerate and adjust to fairly wide variances in signal strength. |
Sorta off topic, but eh?
Last I read, neurons are either On or Off, not REALLY On or a little on.
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Four billion years of evolution and this is all we have to show for it?
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| Post Number: 33
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damien_s_lucifer
Emperor of Detnet
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Posts: 33
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: May 30 2002,05:02 |
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neural states are either triggered (on) or not-triggered (off).
you can think of an individual neuron as a device that answers the question "is the sum of all inputs > my trigger point?" - if the answer is yes, it fires. If the answer is no, it doesn't.
the trigger point is highly adjustable through several different means. altering neurotransmitter levels is one of these. however, neurons do what they can to adjust for chronic alteration, such as that induced by SSRIs.
in the case of SSRIs, neural response is usually a decrease in the number of serotonin receptors on the receiving cell, with a corresponding reduction in the synapse's bandwidth (since fewer receptors = weaker reception, less accuracy, higher S/N).
oddly enough, "reduced emotional bandwidth" is the term I would use to describe the antidepressant feeling. in addition, they make you somewhat clumsy - a dramatic example of reduced accuracy in signal transmission.
SSRI's mimic the action of sedatives so closely that, as I said, we may as well treat the SSRIs as slow-starting, long-acting sedatives, similar to traquilizers, barbituates, and alcohol.
all sedatives have some paradoxical effects, including the sensation of an initial burst of energy when taken at low levels. they all relieve anxiety, but quitting them produces rebound anxiety in most people (as anyone who has had to quit Paxil or Valium can attest). although they can induce sleep, they all degrade its quality. they all have sexual effects. they can increase or decrease desire, but they tend to decrease performance. they all increase appetite at low levels but induce nausea and vomiting at higher levels...
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| Post Number: 34
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ic0n0
I have become Death, Destroyer of Worlds
Group: Members
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Joined: Sep. 2000
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Posted on: May 30 2002,05:19 |
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I take EFFEXOR, which does the serotoin and also norepinephrine. It first when I started taking it I felt like I was on speed and my eyes were extremely dilated and I couldn't sleep. But now things seem to be going all right, my depression is better, this drug has worked for me before a lot better then the SSRI's. The problem is withdrawal; it is like a car hitting a wall at 100 miles an hour, I wouldn't recommend it.
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"I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time." (Isaac Asimov)
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| Post Number: 35
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Vigilante
Unrequited Lover
Group: Members
Posts: 719
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: May 30 2002,05:23 |
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I took effexor for well over a month; didn't do jack for me, even when combined and continued with wellbutrin. Cold turkey withdrawl made me light-headed and clumsy for about a week. Shrug. I'm getting to the point where I'd just like to be cryogenically frozen for a few centuries to see if something better comes along.
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He says turn the other cheek, but that seems kind of weak
I just want to beat up, beat up the meek
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| Post Number: 36
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TheTaxMan
Controversial Thug
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Joined: Apr. 2001
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Posted on: May 30 2002,19:59 |
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Got it (mulitiple (millions of) neurons firing or one (fewer)neuron/s firing for select purpose).
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Four billion years of evolution and this is all we have to show for it?
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