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Where is that tubby bitch??

[This message has been edited by AnimalPrime (edited June 22, 2000).]

The Communist government rest on the ideas of Socialism--

Think of it this way...if the government controled all the production all of the factories- everyone would be paid the same- everyone would have the same amount of work hours and everyone would be treated equal in the eyes of the law. Your court system would be changed (because the rich couldnt get better lawyers- OJ anyone?) Your Health Care would benefit all, education etc everyone gets everything and no one gets more or less.

AND the ideas of competition in the HUMAN WORLD are not comparable to that of the animal world no matter how much you want to think it is. Animals are not competitive in the same sense that humans are- thats not elitist its the truth. Squirels dont forage for nuts, save them and wait until there is limited supply and then sell them off to their squirel friends do they? No they don't. Competitiveness is a purely human invention-

Open your mind a little bit- you can see this is true.
=)

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"The causes we know everything about depend on the causes we know nothing about, which depend on the causes we know absolutely nothing about."- Tom Stoppard

quote:

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Originally posted by Chrissy:
AND the ideas of competition in the HUMAN WORLD are not comparable to that of the animal world no matter how much you want to think it is. Animals are not competitive in the same sense that humans are- thats not elitist its the truth. Squirels dont forage for nuts, save them and wait until there is limited supply and then sell them off to their squirel friends do they? No they don't. Competitiveness is a purely human invention-

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Hmmn. The squirrel has to be competative in the collection of nuts and moderately able to protect their stast from nest-raiding animals. The concept of trading is human, granted, but the competition element is still there in s different form. The squirrel is able to provide for itself by being efficient in nut collection, a person may be able to provide for themselves by being good at polishing antique furniture.

Competition, yes, slightly different form, same competition. Don't forget that the human world and the animal world are actually the same world.

There is always some form of competition. Humans will compete against each other. This is our natural behaviour (otherwise, why do people play sport?).

AnimalPrime, why should you get free healthcare and schooling? I agree it's nice. Everyone ends up paying for your kidney operation(or whatever). Nice, but why should the other people have to pay for your operations? You're being well is not worth anything to them, or what you can provide them.

Hell, I'm all for free healthcare and education and everything else we get free and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

Dustman.. they'll pay for your operation because you would have to pay for thiers if they had to get one to.

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When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

[This message has been edited by j0eSmith (edited June 22, 2000).]

You need to stop making false comparisons because they weaken your argument. Again this was my suggestion for the "Breasts" rant- read M.Foucult and you will find that these ideas do not just "appear" out of thin air.

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"The causes we know everything about depend on the causes we know nothing about, which depend on the causes we know absolutely nothing about."- Tom Stoppard

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"When aiming three blocks away at a 4th story window from your apartment with a high powered air gun and scope. Always make sure there is not a walking patrol cop below your building."

Communism is like democracy and socilism is like capitalism...in the representiveness. Communism is the form of government set in place-whereas socialism is the ideological base for communism (ie that everyone should have access to health care etc) Do you understand now masher?

I agree the world is too greedy to become communist and my thoughts are idealistic at best, nieve at worst. My main point of posting wasnt to allow you all to get a sense of my alliegence to either one form or other but to clarify the difference in what people THINK THEY KNOW and what is the TRUTH.

In the United States (unlike Canada and Australia) our main stay is the idea that one can get ahead with enough work. You only think this is true. It has been shown that whatever class you are born into is the class you stay in. There is a huge difference between Ascribed status and Acheived status. We only believe that capitalism and democracy are the best systems because few other systems have been tried.

Now I would venture to say that I am not a materialistic person in the sense that I don't feel I need to posses many things to be happy in my life. I would also venture to say that Iam not the kind of person who seeks status or recognition for anything. Of course this makes me the perfect candidate for socialism/communsim. You think that Capitalism is a "natural" idea- and I beg to differ.

You have been taught that capitalism mimics the way the "natural" world works. But we are not animals in the same sense that squirles and rabbits are, on the contrary we are quite different. It is easy to see why you feel that capitalism is the best system because for all your life that is all you have known. Its hard to except change when you don't know what the outcome will be.

Just some things to think about. =)

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"The causes we know everything about depend on the causes we know nothing about, which depend on the causes we know absolutely nothing about."- Tom Stoppard

And yet, part of me loves the democratic and capitalist world I live in, for it obeys the laws of nature so well…based more on intelligence and leadership these days, the better you are the higher you go, and I would have to disagree with your “born into your permanent class” statement Chirssy, for I believe that in America it is survival of the fittest once again, but “fittest” has been redefined to represent something disturbing, like richest or most corrupt.

Overall…I enjoy living in America because I know I can succeed and do very well, but I also realize that another not so fortunate would not feel to well, or to well fed either…

Thusly, at this point, what is there to do in my case but appreciate my life to the fullest and try to give others that ability as well?
I know there is no one solution, and thinking about the unsolvable problems too much will make you miss life, and that’s the biggest mistake of them all.

[This message has been edited by Client (edited June 23, 2000).]

So we compete differently to the bird pecking for the worm, so does the rabbit. Why does this fact elevate us so far above animals?? should the rabbit be considered above the bird because of this? no.

There are not infinite rescources. We have no natural predators (well, none that we can't easily avoid) so we must compete for these rescources against other members of the same race.

Communism removes this by saying that each person shall be provided what they need. Sounds nice, but doesn't take into account that there is a limit on total rescource consumation. Saying that each person has a right to food denies the fact that there must be competition. There must be competition due to rescource limits.

Communism is in this respect an ideal-world solution. The world will never be ideal.

If you think that's a good thing look at what the Catholic Church has done. It has done both good and bad (anyone who know's also know's they have done the _very_ good and the _very_ bad). Looking at what we have today on the Internet and in OSS I say there will be much good and much bad to come of this.

As for the real topic...I am all for socialism, but yes I like my democracy. As chrissy pointed out here in Australia (where I am from) we have a socialist/democracy. And anyone who's studied our politics know's we have two sides the left- and right-wing. The right-wing create new socialist policies increasing welfare, send our country broke etc. Then when we get sick of that we vote in the left-wingers to economically rationlise and get things under control, then we vote them back out again.

regards, reman

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People ask me to fix their computer. I do in 5 seconds.
They say "You think your good don't you".
I say "I know I'm good". People always ask stupid questions.