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| Post Number: 41
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CatKnight 
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2002,06:45 |
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I tried to get my point across using sarcasm and wit. Unbenounced to me, you people have the capacity for neither.
I did misquote that there though
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 42
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kuru
Detonate.net's 9mm wielding geek-hit-Goddess
Group: Members
Posts: 2566
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2002,15:05 |
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The more right wing you get, the more freedom you want for everyone .....
Unless that everyone is a woman whose birth control failed and seeks an abortion.
Unless that everyone is an atheist who doesn't want the government endorsing theism as the official religious stance of the country.
Unless that everyone is a gay person who wants to engage in all the legal responsibilities and privileges of marriage.
Unless that everyone is a gay person who wants to give a child a permanent parent instead of a temporary stopgap foster home or state run institution.
Maybe some day it'll be true.. 'with liberty and justice for all.'
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
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| Post Number: 43
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lykosis
DetVet
Group: Members
Posts: 109
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2002,15:42 |
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DL, the page you are reffering to is THE MISANTHROPIC BITCH...which isn't MY site, but a site that i find to be pretty funny...take it with a grain of salt. the only site i contribute to is tfk, it's not MY site, and my stuff is nothing but a poor attempt at humor, and i rarely get around to doing that lately.
Bozeman, i can't figure out that quote stuff either...
CK, making abortion illegal doesn't solve the root problem, just like making guns illegal doesnt solve the root problem.
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| Post Number: 44
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Crafty Butcher
My legs! My legs! I can't feel my legs
Group: Members
Posts: 100
Joined: Nov. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2002,16:36 |
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| Quote (CatKnight @ 28 June 2002,03:18) | | Quote | | nothing was regulated until the 70's, and we were perfectly fine. |
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i have very little to add to this debate, being, as i am, in such a foul mood, that any attempt by me at "well-rounded" discourse (hmmm...nope, still prefer rational) will inevitably lead to me getting drawn in to one of those 'all right-wingers are evil/all liberals are pussies' kind of arguments and i have neither the wit nor will for such a contest atm. those of you feeling more confident in your opinions and ideals please continue as most of you are making a certain amount of conflicting sense. i just wanted to say that CK was obviously living in a different seventies to the rest of us.
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even if his brain wasn't mush - which it is - he chewed out his own tongue a long time ago
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| Post Number: 45
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kuru
Detonate.net's 9mm wielding geek-hit-Goddess
Group: Members
Posts: 2566
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2002,18:07 |
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Crafty, you should be aware that CK, having been born in 1982, did not live through any kind of 'Seventies' at all.
He has no firsthand experience of that decade of which to speak.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
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| Post Number: 46
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2002,20:06 |
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I don't need first hand experience to grasp a concept or read a book. And I said UNTIL the 70's, crafty. Actually, it was the 30's that the regulation really began. It didn't get hard-core until the 70's though.
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Unless that everyone is a woman whose birth control failed and seeks an abortion.
Unless that everyone is an atheist who doesn't want the government endorsing theism as the official religious stance of the country.
Unless that everyone is a gay person who wants to engage in all the legal responsibilities and privileges of marriage.
Unless that everyone is a gay person who wants to give a child a permanent parent instead of a temporary stopgap foster home or state run institution. |
1: libertarians are generally pro-choice.
2: libertarians don't believe in one nut in california having the power to force everyone else in the country to think his way.
3: libertarians are generally for gay whatever as long as you don't do it to them
4: it has been shown through several credible studies that children living with gay parents often become 'fucked up' and that it is worse then a foster home in the long run.
5: I'm not a libertarian, as you might have guessed.
| Quote | | The more right wing you get, the more freedom you want for everyone ..... |
unless that freedom hurts another person, such as an unborn baby, or a kid who hasn't learned morals or social norms yet, etc.
Maybe some day it'll be true.. 'with liberty and justice for all (except babies)."
| Quote | | It strikes me as hypocritical that CK is offended when generalizations are made about conservatives, but then overgeneralizes liberals. |
I get angry when people make rediculous, cartoonish generalizations of conservatives with top hats and tuxedos smoking cigars and burning piles of cash while the poor hungry workers freeze to death on the street, etc. I think DSL is the only one guilty of this, however.
| Quote | | CK, making abortion illegal doesn't solve the root problem, just like making guns illegal doesnt solve the root problem. |
banning murder doesn't solve the root problem of people getting pissed off at each other either, whats the difference?
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 47
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lykosis
DetVet
Group: Members
Posts: 109
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2002,20:20 |
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the difference is...you can't get everyone to agree that a fetus is a life...and until you do that, passing laws ain't gonna do shit but create problems.
i am a libertarian, and i think abortion is the single most debated issue inside our party. personally, i don't agree with abortion, but i don't see making it illegal as having any kind of positive affect on the situation. we have to convince people with wisdom, education, and intelligence...not laws.
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| Post Number: 48
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 28 2002,22:36 |
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fair enough. although I already tried arguing from that position and it didn't fly so well here.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 49
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Pravus Angelus
Codito Ergo Sum
Group: Members
Posts: 81
Joined: May 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 29 2002,00:28 |
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| Quote | | in the thread you refer to, you can avoid rational by saying their arguments are reasonable or that they make sense. by using these words, you're not only being more specific, but you also deftly undermine a possible attack by your opponents. "rational" is so closely associated with "unemotional" that someone can say "but look how emotional their arguments are; they're irrational." |
| Quote | | 1 a : having reason or understanding b : relating to, based on, or agreeable to reason : REASONABLE <a rational explanation> <rational behavior> |
Dude, there's nothing there about emotion. I don't think rational at all implies a lack of emotion, there's certainly nothing in the etymological meaning of the word that does and quite frankly I don't think common usage does either (while the actual reasoning process, in it's abstract form might be unemotional, that doesn't mean the reasoning person is).
| Quote | | as for logic/objectivity - Reason is the proper name for the common rules, axioms, and protocols that lead to good debate. There are instances where the words logic and objectivity are appropriate, of course, but 99% of the time when someone uses those words they're trying to bring the factual certainty of mathematics and science into an area where factual certainty doesn't exist. |
| Quote | 1 a (1) : a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning (2) : a branch or variety of logic <modal logic> <Boolean logic> (3) : a branch of semiotic; especially : SYNTACTICS (4) : the formal principles of a branch of knowledge b (1) : a particular mode of reasoning viewed as valid or faulty (2) : RELEVANCE, PROPRIETY c : interrelation or sequence of facts or events when seen as inevitable or predictable d : the arrangement of circuit elements (as in a computer) needed for computation; also : the circuits themselves
2 : something that forces a decision apart from or in opposition to reason <the logic of war> |
I don't think reason is the 'proper' term, i think logic is just as valid, based on above definition and what is typically taught in a critical thinking class. I do however, agree with you that the words logic and objective are frequently used to give the illusion of scientific accuracy when it doesn't exist. However, you imply that objective truth does not exist outside of science. See my previous post..., it does.
btw, on the side discussion...the terms liberal and conservative (their political meanings at least) are pretty worthless. You can take a group of ten 'liberals' and find massive dissagreements on a variety of issues. Same with 'conservatives'. The words only serve to polarize issues unnecessarily.
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"Lately, the only thing keeping me from being a serial killer is my distaste for manual labor"
--Dilbert
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