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Darth Liberus 
Emperor of Detnet
Group: Members
Posts: 2246
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: Jun. 25 2002,00:34 |
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since Politics is supposed to have a higher standard of argument than the other forums, this topic belongs here.
Words and phrases that promote intellectual sloppiness:
rational / irrational - these words make sense when talking about mathematics. outside of that context, they are so overloaded that they're meaningless (see "objective.") when discussing the validity of an argument's structure, use sound and unsound/fallacious instead. when discussing whether something or someone is reasonable or unreasonable, use those words instead.
logical / illogical - overloaded. using "logic" as a noun is OK (i.e. "the logic of your argument is unsound"), but the adjective forms should be avoided. see "objective" and "rational/irrational."
objective - overloaded. often used to give (or take away) the appearence of being "scientific" when in fact the subject lies outside the realm of science. fair, factual, well-reasoned, and well-rounded are far more specific phrases.
biased / unbiased - meaningless in the case of biased; false in the case of unbiased. bias is present in every argument. the important thing isn't whether or not someone is biased, it's what the bias is. i.e. journalism is supposed to be biased towards stories and facts relevant to the community, but is often biased more towards ratings.
emotional argument - meaningless. outside of mathematics and science, all arguments are motivated by and appeal to emotions. generally used to undermine the validity of an opposing argument by implying that the arguer is somehow being "wimpy" or "overly emotional", which is an ad hominem attack and therefore fallacious. the question is not if emotions are present and appealed to in an argument, but which emotions.
impact - ugly and vague. learn the difference between effect ("a result" when used as a noun, "to bring into existence" when used as a verb) and affect (a verb meaning "to influence") and use them instead. Quick way to translate - when using impact as a verb ("how will this impact me?") use a-ffect; when using it as a noun ("what will the impact be?") use e-ffect.
thoughts? additions?
Edited by Darth Liberus on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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"let's travel around with our laptops, plug in, and destroy the very fabric of modern reality." -a2n3d7y
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Mhoraigh
stow-away
Group: Members
Posts: 135
Joined: Apr. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 25 2002,03:46 |
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I think you covered the topic pretty well.....but on a side note - never apologize to Lykosis......she wouldn't apologize to you.
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dyingdays.com - Jennifer
"Captain Loob he taught me all about the ocean
he taught me how to sail the briny sea
And though I've tried to live clean
To me what's a good life mean
I'm a pirate, that's all I'll ever be."
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Forum Whore
just for you
Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 25 2002,03:48 |
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IMHO, what you wrote is simple, fair and (logical) makes sense, but I wonder if anyone could remember it longer than a week...
It would sure improve the quality of writing though, I'd have to clean up a little myself. Ok, maybe a lot.
I wonder if we should marry it to what BtC is writing so it's all in one place?
Are we getting carried away with the fine print?
Detnet has gotten along fine without.... hey, no it hasn't...
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Darth Liberus
Emperor of Detnet
Group: Members
Posts: 2246
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: Jun. 25 2002,07:06 |
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they're not rules or guidelines, just words to watch for and suggestions for replacing them in your own writing. you can completely ignore my above post if you want, but I'm going to be attacking people on these kinds of things. I've seen an awful lot of deeply manipulative arguments lately and I'm sick of it.
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"let's travel around with our laptops, plug in, and destroy the very fabric of modern reality." -a2n3d7y
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Forum Whore
just for you
Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 25 2002,07:18 |
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You never cease to be an interesting person.
Nothing would make me happier than if everyone heeded your post! It would raise the bar for everyone and make posts more intelligent.
The feeling is that you have your work cut out for you.
Luck.
(whenever I see DL's nic I stop and see Detnet to see what he writes)
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Darth Liberus
Emperor of Detnet
Group: Members
Posts: 2246
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: Jun. 25 2002,10:11 |
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/me bows 
ck, you should print that out and hang it on your wall as a reminder that a lot of "conservative" journalism is insanely manipulative. yeah, yeah, I know a lot of liberal/leftist journalism isn't exactly factual either, but the tricks they use are obvious rather than underhanded. leftists are stupid on the surface 
i'm not trying to make you into a liberal or anything (like that would ever happen), just trying to help you become a better conservative. imagine being able to throw down *good* conservative arguments that make Bill O'Reilly look like a blathering idiot...
Edited by Darth Liberus on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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"let's travel around with our laptops, plug in, and destroy the very fabric of modern reality." -a2n3d7y
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Bozeman
Guardian
Group: Members
Posts: 762
Joined: Jun. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 25 2002,15:00 |
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Hey, everyone, it's the Fox News drinking game!
Print out DL's first post and take a drink whenever one of those tactics is used.
Drink once if the banner ever says anything besides "war on terror."
Twice if Bill O' Riley doesn't interrupt a guest.
Twice if Hannity doesn't go completely offesive on his guest.
Four times every time Colmes agrees with Hannity.
The whole bottle if Ollie North implies that a military coup d'etat would have been a good idea.
Have fun!
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It's the pop-o-matic bubble, motherfucker!
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lykosis
DetVet
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Posts: 109
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 25 2002,16:14 |
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i'd rather just DRINK and read these websites...i'm not a big fan of the talking heads.
www.ccops.com
www.corpwatch.org
www.debka.com
www.guerillanews.com
www.antiwar.com
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| Post Number: 9
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Darth Liberus
Emperor of Detnet
Group: Members
Posts: 2246
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: Jun. 25 2002,22:35 |
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[EMAIL=lol@bozeman...]lol@bozeman...[/EMAIL]
I'm not cool enough to read Lykosis' alternative news sites.
I, being brainwashed by the mainstream, still gain my news from such unreliable sources as
CNN
The San Francisco Chronicle
The Associated Press
Reuters News Service
BBC
and for some alternative but still highly-regarded journalism:
Project Censored - some of their stuff is really leftist, but they do a good job of keeping an eye on corporate media
San Francisco Bay Guardian - this paper generally sticks to local issues & entertainment. they've blown the doors off more than a few scandals around here. widely lauded by other journalists.
of course, the problem with ALL of these publications is that they expect that you are an intelligent person capable of thinking for yourself.
Edited by Darth Liberus on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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"let's travel around with our laptops, plug in, and destroy the very fabric of modern reality." -a2n3d7y
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| Post Number: 10
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forumwhore
Fear Me, I Am Change.
Group: Members
Posts: 3282
Joined: Dec. 2001
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Posted on: Jun. 26 2002,02:42 |
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A few posts back, DL, you said,
"ck, you should print that out and hang it on your wall as a reminder that a lot of "conservative" journalism is insanely manipulative. yeah, yeah, I know a lot of liberal/leftist journalism isn't exactly factual either, but the tricks they use are obvious rather than underhanded. leftists are stupid on the surface."
You know I have a couple theories about that.
What do you mean exactly? I can't stop thinking about it.
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Posting from; El Pueblo de Nuestra Senora la Reina de Los Angeles de Porciuncula
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