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| Post Number: 11
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forumwhore 
Fear Me, I Am Change.
Group: Members
Posts: 3282
Joined: Dec. 2001
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Posted on: Jul. 17 2002,22:08 |
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Like many other SF ideas, this will come into being.
(goes to send link to Niven)
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Posting from; El Pueblo de Nuestra Senora la Reina de Los Angeles de Porciuncula
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| Post Number: 12
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redpanic
Nero fiddled...
Group: Members
Posts: 48
Joined: May 2002
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Posted on: Jul. 18 2002,01:36 |
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| Quote (Wolfguard @ 17 July 2002,07:59) | ...
What do you think about funding technology that would let us store organs for long periods of time?
This leads into:
What do you think about using the usable body parts of death row inmates to help people that are in need of organs? Basicly harvest their organs and put them into the above mentioned storage as the means of their execution.
...Since the only way you get a new part is to have someone else die does it matter if it was a car accident or capital punishment? |
If I'm not mistaken - they've been doing this in China for some time now. (ie: inmates for parts...read it somewhere)
I don't see anything ethically wrong with it - provided spare parts don't become some sort of commodity.
The PC thing to say nowadays is that organ donation is great, and everyone is all for it when it comes to voicing their opinion. However, if this were the case, and all those who say they would, DID in fact donate their organs - would there still be a shortage?
What I'm getting at is that if we don't use inmates, we're stuck in a stale environment where people talk out of both sides of their mouths - and nothing gets accomplished. 
Edited by redpanic on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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The truth is a virus.
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| Post Number: 13
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stray_kitten
Still new...
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: Jul. 2002
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Posted on: Jul. 18 2002,07:31 |
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| Quote | | The PC thing to say nowadays is that organ donation is great, and everyone is all for it when it comes to voicing their opinion. However, if this were the case, and all those who say they would, DID in fact donate their organs - would there still be a shortage? |
Well, as pointed out earlier, a lot of organ transplants occur due to the death of a donor (it's kinda hard to donate a heart and still live). So, even if EVERYONE who said they supported donating organs did donate, you still have to wait for someone to die. Plus, I'm sure the need for organs was rapidly growing...even before donating was "PC". So, I'd say that there probably would still be a shortage.
| Quote | | What I'm getting at is that if we don't use inmates, we're stuck in a stale environment where people talk out of both sides of their mouths - and nothing gets accomplished. |
I disagree. How many fewer hearts/kidneys/livers would we need if people took better care of themselves? Granted, I know there are lots of cases where people need organs due to disease, genetics, whatever...but there are other cases where people have just trashed their bodies (okay, maybe less of a case for hearts since those people usually die of heart attacks). Obesity has led to increased cases of diabetes, and who knows how many people have just drowned their livers with alcohol? I'm not saying that it would completely solve the problem, but it would probably help if people tried to prevent some problems instead of expecting medicine to fix it (please note, I am NOT referring to those who need an organ due to disease, genetics, and other things that can't be helped).
There will probably always be a shortage. Due to advances in medicine, people keep expecting to live longer, and with age comes increased medical problems.
If you want to do something about filling transplant needs, go donate blood, platelets, or plasma. It's a start.
Edited by stray_kitten on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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"The monuments of wit outlast the monuments of power"
-Sir Francis Bacon
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| Post Number: 14
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DRUFER
bleh.
Group: Members
Posts: 100
Joined: Aug. 2001
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Posted on: Jul. 18 2002,14:57 |
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| Quote (CatKnight @ 17 July 2002,13:38) | | that's a moot point they don't do that now either |
Hunh? Then whats the point of people selling off their organs, and stopping the shortage, if there still not going to find a good match....the selling organs isnt going to solve anything.
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I need a new sig.
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| Post Number: 15
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Wolfguard
Flyswatter of the Apocalypse
Group: Members
Posts: 1696
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Jul. 18 2002,14:58 |
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| Quote (Necromancer @ 17 July 2002,11:47) | well bob you're appeal is in 10 weeks time but seeing as this guy needs a heart now they've decided to bump forward your sentancing to next tuesday. sorry old chap lifes a bitch aint it.
10 weeks later: aww drat THERE'S that missing piece of evidence we've been needing to prove your innocence. |
Worse yet  you get a new crime.
Say i have money and find out that i need a new heart. the doc gives me the bad news that i need the heart now but there is not one in the banks. the doc, an old friend of mine, explains that he knows "this guy" that can get organs for a price but it has to be kept quiet. now, since at this point the only people that know are me and the doc i give him a wink and a nod along with a briefcase full of cash.
3 days later a healthy person vanishes someplace in the world and a week later i have a new heart.
Organlegging is born and we have an entire new group of people we can feed to the organ banks.
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Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.
[url=http://www.teamwolfguard.com]TeamWolfguard.com[/url]
"screw the fireball spells...i got a case of WP grenades and a case of teddy bears!"
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| Post Number: 16
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redpanic
Nero fiddled...
Group: Members
Posts: 48
Joined: May 2002
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Posted on: Jul. 18 2002,15:51 |
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| Quote | | ... you still have to wait for someone to die. |
A combined effort between using criminals' bodies - those that are worth using, and getting people to commit to doing it, could at the least offer a decrease in the overall need.
Not to mention that at the least, 1/2 of the US population "says" they agree with, and feel people should participate in organ donation. Why do they not participate?
| Quote | | ..if people took better care of themselves? ....(please note, I am NOT referring to those who need an organ due to disease...). |
This is a solution? How long has the government/news media been harping on America to get "fit" and be "healthy"? Years. Yes, people are more aware (to an extent), but the same problems still exist. Nothing has changed. 
Edited by redpanic on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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The truth is a virus.
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| Post Number: 17
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demonk
The other white meat
Group: Members
Posts: 800
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jul. 18 2002,16:48 |
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Well, we make it more finacially smart to be out of shape! You can get an extra-extra-extra large milkshake and fry's for only $2.49, but it costs ~$100 worth of cloths, gym fees, time, etc just to burn off the amount of calories that meal puts on! If the government really wants to help get America fit, they should go in and give all the gyms in the country money (much like the airlines) so they can reduce their prices to dirt cheap so your average Joe Sixpack can actually afford to go there and workout in a healthy, supportive environment.
Or we could just outlaw McDonals 
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I'm just two people short of a threesome!
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| Post Number: 18
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stray_kitten
Still new...
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: Jul. 2002
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Posted on: Jul. 18 2002,17:11 |
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[quote=redpanic,18 July 2002,09:51][/quote]
| Quote | | A combined effort between using criminals' bodies - those that are worth using, and getting people to commit to doing it, could at the least offer a decrease in the overall need. |
but there would still be a shortage. You still have to wait for someone to die. And then, in the case of using criminals' organs...there's the whole argument about whether or not the death penalty is right in the first place (but that's an entirely different topic).
| Quote | | This is a solution? How long has the government/news media been harping on America to get "fit" and be "healthy"? Years. Yes, people are more aware (to an extent), but the same problems still exist. Nothing has changed. |
Nope. Didn't say it was a solution...just one way to help. You're right, nothing has changed despite "awareness." I'm not talking about awareness...I'm talking about change. Like demonk said...it's easier to live an unhealthy lifestyle than a healthy one. CHANGE THAT. Have gym memberships cost less...same with healthier food. REAL change that will help move America toward a healthier lifestyle...not just "awareness campaigns."
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"The monuments of wit outlast the monuments of power"
-Sir Francis Bacon
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| Post Number: 19
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forumwhore
Fear Me, I Am Change.
Group: Members
Posts: 3282
Joined: Dec. 2001
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Posted on: Jul. 18 2002,19:40 |
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SK, you are obviously not new to forums; what are your intentions here?
(fucking cable modems/floating IPs)
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Posting from; El Pueblo de Nuestra Senora la Reina de Los Angeles de Porciuncula
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| Post Number: 20
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redpanic
Nero fiddled...
Group: Members
Posts: 48
Joined: May 2002
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Posted on: Jul. 18 2002,19:54 |
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| Quote (stray_kitten @ 18 July 2002,11:11) | but there would still be a shortage. You still have to wait for someone to die. And then, in the case of using criminals' organs...there's the whole argument about whether or not the death penalty is right in the first place (but that's an entirely different topic).
...I'm talking about change. Like demonk said...it's easier to live an unhealthy lifestyle than a healthy one. CHANGE THAT. Have gym memberships cost less...same with healthier food. REAL change that will help move America toward a healthier lifestyle...not just "awareness campaigns." |
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 the utopia you describe sounds great.
and even with this kind of "real change", there would be no guarantee it would work. and if it did, it would take years to figure out if it had been successful. in the mean time, people are still dying. i suppose the question now is "how immediate is our need?".
we have close to 2 million inmates locked up right now for various crimes. upon release, 65.7% end up locked up again for the same, or another crime. (statistics online...)
what good do they serve? if they have nothing to live for, and for no other reason cannot be a productive member of society - we should make them useful.
and yes, the death penalty is the right way to go. we don't enforce it enough - people don't fear the death penalty because it is rarely used.
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The truth is a virus.
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