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| Post Number: 11
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Darth Liberus 
Emperor of Detnet
Group: Members
Posts: 2246
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: Jun. 20 2002,01:18 |
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maybe my eyes are missing something, but I don't see any of those things said in my post.
oh, wait, I get it... I must've implied them, right? In the same way they implied all those horrible things in school?
I'd like to point out that "brainwashing" is damn near impossible in an open society. Misleading people, yes... but brainwashing? That is hard even in a totalitarian society.
Give me a fucking break.
This isn't 1984, people.
Edited by Darth Liberus on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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"let's travel around with our laptops, plug in, and destroy the very fabric of modern reality." -a2n3d7y
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| Post Number: 12
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 20 2002,06:27 |
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| Quote | | In the same way they implied all those horrible things in school? |
I stated that they explicitly taught that. If you want, I could try to find the textbook (I saw someone walking around with one up here) and grab some quotes.
DSL you are never going to win an argument simply by twisting my words. now sit the fuck down.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 13
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Darth Liberus
Emperor of Detnet
Group: Members
Posts: 2246
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: Jun. 20 2002,06:32 |
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| Quote (CatKnight @ 19 June 2002,16:49) | DSL: catknight has a learning disability
catknight is a "culturalist"
catknight is inbred
catknight is a nazi |
four things I never said.
who is twisting whose words around?
edit: I did use the word "inbred," though it was obvious that I meant it as an insult and not a fact.
for the record, I have never used the word "culturalist" in my entire life.
Edited by Darth Liberus on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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"let's travel around with our laptops, plug in, and destroy the very fabric of modern reality." -a2n3d7y
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| Post Number: 14
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demonk
The other white meat
Group: Members
Posts: 800
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 20 2002,06:38 |
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| Quote (CatKnight @ 19 June 2002,13:46) | | even now I am still trying to learn the truth about the civil war, which we never were told in high school. |
The reason they never tell you the truth is beacuse it isn't as romantic or as "good vs. evil" kind of war (which non really are).
It was almost completely about money. Even the slave issue was about money. The slave industry was a multimillion dollar, if not more, industry. The South was largely agricultural, and they produced way more than the country needed, so they exported it to other countried, which they made a lot of money off of. But the North was mostly manufacturing. In order to give localy produced goods an advantage over imported goods, they wanted large import tarrifs placed on all imported goods. But that would have resulted in the other countries placing large import tarrifs on things we exported (mainly foodstuff). This would have led to less money for the South. So, the South and the North had a hard time existing. War was inevitable.
So, as you can see, it wasn't as simple or romantic as the "war to free the slaves" we are taught in high school. Besides, 95% of students wouldn't understand the complexities of the whole situation, so it would have just been wasted time.
Edited by demonk on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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I'm just two people short of a threesome!
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| Post Number: 15
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wix
politically unstable
Group: Members
Posts: 37
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 20 2002,06:57 |
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| Quote (CatKnight @ 19 June 2002,22:27) | | DSL you are never going to win an argument simply by twisting my words. now sit the fuck down. |
Personally, I think he's doing a pretty good job. 
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"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session."--Judge Gideon J. Tucker, 1866.
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| Post Number: 16
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wix
politically unstable
Group: Members
Posts: 37
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 20 2002,07:18 |
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Random Rants and why Alan Stang is an idiot.
| Quote | | Abraham Lincoln, the man who gave us a military dictatorship, and who, more than any other, sowed the seeds that became the gargantuan whore of Babylon that rules us today, said once that no invading enemy soldier could ever take a drink from the Ohio. We would live for all time, or perish by our own hand, according to Dishonest Abe. |
Why spend a whole paragraph to pointlessly attack Abraham Lincoln. I suppose the author read another point of view, decided wow, I'm enlightened, and now Abe's an ass. This sounds pretty, I'll put it in my essay. ... pfft.
| Quote | | ... We have been attacked by Muslims in the name of Islam. Our leaders have responded not only by apologizing for Islam, even coddling Islam--but also by allowing Islam to be taught in the government schools. ... This is about as preposterous as it would have been had we extended the same courtesy to emperor worship after Pearl Harbor and to the occult Nazi religion. |
Okay this is the part that confuses me, first he says that we can't subject ourselves to propaganda and brainwashing, and then he argues that the government needs to censor us because of what a fringe terrorist asshole did to our country. To me, all I read is de facto brainwashing.
| Quote | | Why don't they believe anything? Because they have been taught not to believe anything in the nation's government schools. |
Exactly the point DSL was making, It's fascinating to me that the author would even bring this up. We are taught not to trust everything thrown at us, because in an open society we can TAKE whatever we want and learn from it.
I didn't just settle for what my teachers told me, I've read Howard Zinn, or Dye and Zigler, but I don't just take what they tell me for truth either. That's why in an open society the statement, "I don't like public schools they teach history in a biased fashion," is dumb. Being skeptical and changeable isn't a sin, nor is it bad. I define a rational person as someone who would change their mind being presented with evidence or good reason to do so. Too many people are stuck believing one thing simply "because."
Bias exists on all sides. If you don't teach a muslim perspective you teach a christian perspective. The best way to solve for it is to make both available in a free fashion, and beat the shit out of both in the classroom. The skeptic has the ability to find out, the believer has the ability to believe reguardless (eg, those irrational people), and the poor bastard in the middle who is wishy washy and doesn't care, well... he doesn't care.
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"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session."--Judge Gideon J. Tucker, 1866.
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| Post Number: 17
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lykosis
DetVet
Group: Members
Posts: 109
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 20 2002,14:52 |
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wix, you seem like a well read intelligent type person, and i salute your ability to debate. so, i'd like your opinion on two questions.
what percentage of the world population to think is "rational" by your definition?
what percentage of the USA?
not a trick question...i'm not trying to lead you down any road to futher debate you...i'm genuinly curious of your thoughts on this.
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| Post Number: 18
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wix
politically unstable
Group: Members
Posts: 37
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 20 2002,18:29 |
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| Quote (lykosis @ 20 June 2002,06:52) | wix, you seem like a well read intelligent type person, and i salute your ability to debate. so, i'd like your opinion on two questions.
what percentage of the world population to think is "rational" by your definition?
what percentage of the USA?
not a trick question...i'm not trying to lead you down any road to futher debate you...i'm genuinly curious of your thoughts on this. |
I would be very hesitant to just make up some numbers of who is rational. I really don't have any idea. My ex-girlfriend for instance wasn't rational. We would argue, and it would eventually break down to "I don't know why I believe it, I just do!" That sort of thing is illogical. I personally have express distaste for those who so easily follow the demogouge.
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"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session."--Judge Gideon J. Tucker, 1866.
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| Post Number: 19
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 20 2002,19:52 |
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| Quote | | It was almost completely about money. |
more importantly, states rights versus federal government.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 20
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kuru
Detonate.net's 9mm wielding geek-hit-Goddess
Group: Members
Posts: 2566
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 20 2002,20:33 |
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The second biggest monetary reason for the Civil War was that nobody could just wave a wand and free the slaves and have it be done with.
The slave owners were citizens of this country, and the slaves were considered property, so for the federal government to have just passed a law and freed them all, they would've had to provide just compensation to the owners for the loss of their 'property'.
That would easily have bankrupted the nation; however, since the south seceeded from the Union, the federal government could emancipate the slaves (who now belonged to people that didn't consisder themselves citizens and therefore had no expectation of just compensation).
The war between the states was the ultimate end-run. and it's amazing that it worked.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
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